We recently published a few posts on some of the challenges we’ve encountered with teaching our four-year-old son the value of hard work, and also on the value of worshipping together as a family (both with the church and at home). One of the unexpected results was an extended email exchange with a blogger acquaintance and her husband, Melissa and Matt B. We both felt the conversation was encouraging and helpful — mostly it was us asking questions and them answering. One might more accurately call it an interview! So with permission I post below the contents of that email chat. Feel free to reach them via their blog!

For context, you may want to first read the initial comment on our family worship post, then continue here.

Evers: I had a question regarding this point: “If your children don’t love the standard, lower your standards until they love them, THEN wade into the deep end.” How does this play out in practice? Let them go wild cuz they love that standard? =-)

And what do we do to help our children “love” the standards, and not just “obey” them? Just looking for a little more “flesh” to the theory.

On another note, our church isn’t family-integrated. They have “children’s church,” but are open to parents keeping children with them during service… that gives us a little less freedom than if were in a church whose philosophy were family-integrated worship as the norm.

Matt: Well, I figured you would ask me to expound on what I meant…..as if I know what I’m doing…DOH!

I will preface this by letting you know that I am in need of hearing this myself and we often feel like we are flying by the seat of our pants here. We happen to be very blessed in our church situation where we are immersed in a community of about 1500 reformed folk who are very consciously aware of raising their children in the nurture and admonition of the LORD. We have a TON of resources to glean knowledge from. So, that being said, I will attempt to provide a little more clarification.

By “lowering” the standard, I am in no way trying to say that we should “glory” in that or stay at a low standard. What happens often is that we forget that we need to teach our children the “perfect law of LIBERTY” and that Christ’s yoke is truly “easy”. We should start, fundamentally, with the foundational issues in our children before attempting to build the house. Totalitarian governments like to “anticipate” violations and make a myriad of rules that only a lawyer can figure out. The common people are left unawares of the law and the government can at any point find a technical violation to “nab” you on. Conversely, case law allows for liberty and freedom with fewer laws so that the people may understand the spirit of the law or law giver. We want to establish the case laws and principles in our children. Once the foundational principles are firmly established and understood by our children, we can move on to some more detailed law. We should be trying to train them to think something like, “I know mom and dad didn’t specifically SAY I couldn’t do that, but I know them (and the general principles of the law) well enough to know that I shouldn’t do that.” My girls love to “get out” on technicalities. Boys I hear are much more directly rebellious, but I wouldn’t know…..

Practically speaking, this may mean simplifying some things. Try not to be annoyed at minor fidgeting in church. Is it really that important in God’s eyes if the kids have their hands folded throughout the entire service? If they sing the ABC’s during worship instead of the song that they don’t know, is it so bad? Are we being too fussy to smile at our children during service or tickle their ear? Do we show affection towards them in the service? My tendency in the past has been to be the “fussy tidy minded little Christian that wants perfect little angel children who have had a thorough baptism in lemon juice prior to entering the Lords house…..” I am really trying to break that habit because I don’t want to have my kids think joy is some abstract term on Sundays. I want my kids to think Sunday is the best day of the week…full of practical, hands on, tangible, JOY.

I guess I’m trying to say, “pick your battles”. Watch how many you get into. Example….when you are leaving a guest’s house and you call your children to you, you have created a battle that you MUST win. Instead, if you know your children are tired and this may provoke a battle you don’t want to have in front of your friends, just go over and pick the child up. You could also provide a warning…We have had success with this.. “Isabelle and Hannah, we have five minutes before we’re leaving…” It helps prepare them for the departure.

Family Worship can be a battle. If your kids constantly struggle through it, try to shorten it. (In theory) I’d rather have 5-10 min of joyful worship than 30-45 min of doctrinally correct lessons with lengthy prayers (I really struggle with this one). Do you have a hard time getting the little ones through the great, lengthy, classic hymns? Shorten them up, at least for now. Do a verse or two at a time, or even do a fast paced modern song that quotes scripture. Do some fun, silly songs that you know they’ll enjoy. I want to pack so much “good reformed stuff” in that I usually make it too long for my kids. This makes them restless and squirmy so much so that it distracts me and them and then they miss the actual “depth” of what I’m saying anyway. I need to learn to give it to them a little at a time and really let them enjoy it at their level. They are small children and I often forget that. It is really ironic that I am typing all of this, because tonight was a particularly hard Family Worship night for me (mostly). The kids didn’t seem to be bothered but daddy was a grouch. I am rambling more to give myself some pointers for the next few weeks….so I apologize if this doesn’t help. We try to structure our worship time with a liturgical feel. I start off by saying “Give thanks to the LORD for He is good”……and everyone responds…. “His mercies endure forever! Blessed be the name of our God!” This gives our children a chance to be directly involved with worship. We also do catechism questions…The children’s catechism is their favorite part of Family Worship. It has been a wonderful “game” for them to play every night.

Pharisees exercised authority over and upon the people in an oppressive way by binding them under heavy loads and burdens (high standards) and lacked the love and grace, which was the more fundamental principle. They inverted the law. Christ spoke out against them for lacking love and grace (foundation), not having high standards (tithing mint and cumin for example….”for this you ought to have done”). Psalm 119 is replete with sayings like: “Your testimonies are wonderful…How sweet are Your words to my taste, sweeter than honey in my mouth….. But I delight in Your law…Oh how I love Your law…..etc” learning to love Gods law (rules) is fundamental. Love is fundamental. If we are teaching our kids to obey without love then we are raising Pharisees, not children that honor God. The children’s catechism says “How do you glorify God? ….By LOVING Him and obeying His commands”.

The best way of teaching your kids how to love the standards and not just outwardly obey them is by imitation. Do we love the standards? Do we love God’s law or are we just outwardly giving obeisance? Are we joyful or baptized in lemon juice? Is the overarching theme in our home characterized with joy and gladness (not cheesy chipperness, but true joy and thanksgiving)? Do we sing psalms and spiritual songs because we want to? Are we expecting our children to love things that we don’t truly love? As our children grow older and mature they will pick up on our sincerity or our hypocrisy. They learn from imitation. Don’t let your children get away with complaining. They must learn to obey and obey joyfully. No stomping of the feet when they clean up their toys….No back-chat when told to do something….no fussing over food that has been given….Complaining and grumbling is a deadly sin that can easily creep into a home and bring it to ruin. We must “count it all joy when we encounter various trials….do all things without complaining…..rejoice in the Lord always, again I say rejoice.” Sadly, I have many times caught myself grumpily telling my children to be joyful and not complain. Oh don’t worry I always had the pathetic excuse that “If they would only be joyful it sure would be a heck of a lot easier for me to be joyful….who can I bring this complaint to?….because, I was perfectly joyful until these little disobedient, grouchy, complaining, munchkins irked me.”…..sigh. Obviously I have issues.

But as God has bestowed love and grace to me, so I am learning to do the same to my children. They are God’s property, not mine. I have been given the arduous and rewarding task of being God’s steward over His children. God has entrusted me with the high calling of imitating Him to my children. My actions/reactions speak much louder about God than my words do. I wonder what my children would think their heavenly Father was like if all they had to base their knowledge off of was the actions of their earthly father. It is a rather sobering thought. Each day we tell our children that they have a heavenly father that loves them and takes care of them and the only context they have of a father is us. If God were standing there during our discipline sessions, would He be satisfied with how we, as stewards, are disciplining them? Every day we either speak the truth about Jesus to our family or we speak slander……

By God’s grace alone I pray I don’t slander God’s true fatherhood. By God’s grace alone I pray that my children know His love displayed through me. By God’s grace alone I pray that my marriage is an accurate and worthy representation of God’s marriage to His Church. By God’s grace alone can we ever hope to not screw up our children’s eternal souls. The comfort in all of this is that God obviously thought we could do this….you and I are both in a similar situation (child-wise). I thank God that “He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.”

Evers: Related question, since I’ve got you going. =-) One of our current challenges is motivating/teaching our oldest (4yo) to work. Do you have any ideas? This has become a source of increasing frustration. We don’t expect him to significantly contribute, but we want him to learn to contribute with tasks he is capable of.

Matt: Well, I’m certainly glad to know we aren’t the only ones who have sinful children *wink*. I would say after reading your blog article that you are on the right track and that we daily struggle with the same thing with our girls. DON’T give up. Be consistent, be loving, be patient. Continue to make him work contributing as much as he can to the family and be diligent and joyful while he is working…not just “doing the job”. Grumbling about doing work is not much better than doing no work at all.

Also, I would suggest that this is a proper time for discipline for a few reasons.
1. foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child the rod of correction SHALL drive it far from him.

2. a whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fools back.

3. when the scoffer is punished, the simple is made wise; but when the wise is instructed, he receives knowledge.

4. a wise son makes a glad father but a foolish man despises his mother.
We see in the bible that a lazy man is a fool or, if nothing else, is acting foolish. We see the contrast of a wise person and a fool and the differing outcomes of their respective behaviors. By faithful, patient, calm, loving, discipline (rod) in this area, God has promised effective results. The biblical promise is that the rod shall drive the folly far from the heart of a child. It does not say, “may drive”, or “is capable of driving”, but rather, will drive….that is a promise. When we seek to bring our children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord we are miserable failures in and of ourselves, but we stand fast upon the promises of God’s faithfulness in our discipline set before us in scripture. We don’t try spanking for a while just to “give it a shot”. It is an authorized way (not the only way, but one that is emphasized especially in regards to youthful foolishness) to effectively remove folly. Discipline is corrective in nature. That being said, explaining the foolishness of laziness to your child is the abstract portion of the lesson, and the spanking brings home the “hands on application” to the “abstract” in the minds of our children.

I, as well as Melissa, have often been too short sighted in our discipline sessions. We need to understand that this is a long term goal. We get caught up in the never ending, small, daily battles and lose sight of the overarching war we are in. “Do not grow weary in doing good, for in due season you will reap if you faint not.” Maintaining a long term vision helps in the short term struggles. We, as husbands, must encourage our wives as they are in the thick of it. We must show them the successes that they have accomplished while in the trenches. We can get away from it for a while by going to the workplace, but it is a continuous struggle throughout the day with our wives. We also must maintain consistency, not only in the application of the rod for those types of violations, but also in our patience in the administration of the discipline. It will not be effective if we ourselves are being sinful in the process. If we are easily angered and impatient with our children during discipline, then we are only compounding our sin onto their sin. This is a very difficult thing to grasp when you’re in the thick of it for, say, the 20th time today…..grrrr.

Therein lies our problem. I tell my daughters that they are forgiven of their respective trespasses when they seek reconciliation at the end of a discipline session. Once I have said that, I have no right to throw it back in their teeth by bringing it up again. This happens when we get upset over repeat spankings for the same offense. That really shows that I did not truly forgive them and I am still holding it against them. Even if the same trespass occurs 30 seconds after they just sought forgiveness and I gave it to them. We need to smile and calmly start the process over, not bringing the recently forgiven trespass up, but rather dealing with the new one. How many times have we approached our Heavenly Father seeking His forgiveness and then almost immediately after receiving forgiveness, flub it up again? What if God said something like, “Didn’t I just deal with this sin with you?” or “I’ll forgive you if this is your first offense today, but any more than that and you’re gong to get it.” or “I’m really getting tired of having to deal with your laziness….etc.”

The funny thing is is that you keep bringing up the same issues that we struggle with in our children. It is a season I guess. We just need to remember to keep plugging away and standing fast upon the promises set forth in scripture regarding our children. It is of paramount importance to show love and grace to our children by calmly administering discipline and not disqualify ourselves from disciplining them by being angry, yelling, getting frustrated etc… I have an easy time understanding all these things in theory and, consequently, have no excuse. However, I fail to be patient, I get frustrated, I get angry, I get sinful and disqualify myself from being able to properly administer discipline. So as I write this down, I merely condemn myself. But, at the same time it gives God a chance to organize my thoughts and to set my mind straight so that I may succeed in raising Godly children before the Lord.

Evers: Question, mainly for Melissa: what means have you found most helpful for overcoming / fighting frustration / burn-out? Thanks so much for your open sharing.

Melissa: I’m glad you and Matt started this whole email conversation, as it’s really been good and convicting for us. As far as avoiding burnout/frustration I have a few thoughts, but I do struggle just as much with this as I think any mom of four tiny children would! I think the biggest thing is to truly *love* our husbands, our children, our home - basically the work God has given us in this season.

One thing that helps is that I try to take advantage of Matt’s being home on the weekends or evenings to take a little “break”, without overwhelming him. For example, yesterday a young family was over to play with the kids, and one of my daughters was NOT being diligent to do her sweeping job (which was not only disobedient, but it was also rude to our guests as she couldn’t play with them the whole time she was dawdling). I knew how easy it would be for me to get frustrated, so I just quietly told her to go wait in her room (this happened three times), and I asked Matt to take care of it. He graciously did. He also watches the girls one night a week so I can get away for an hour (I take an Irish dance class which I LOVE).

It helps me immensely to get enough sleep at night. This happens to be an area I really struggle in being diligent about. Even when I’m tired, it’s my inclination to stay up too late - whether it’s to get things done while the girls are asleep, finish a movie instead of just turning it off till later, read “just one more chapter”, or something else. I am trying to learn that “it is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late and eat the bread of sorrows, for so He giveth His beloved sleep.” Ps. 127 I know the days I get enough rest, it is far easier to be patient with my girls, and to enjoy the day in general.

I personally have to make sure I eat enough. I’ve always been a bit hypoglycemic and I get SO dizzy if I don’t eat, and eat quite a bit. Therefore I do get up earlier than everyone else to eat a big enough breakfast. I have my girls stay in their beds till I come get them in the morning (after a rather frightening night when Isabelle woke up at 3 thinking it was morning, and I heard her walking about and thought there was a prowler). This also helps make sure I have a few minutes to “fuel” myself to start the day. They can talk, sing and read with eachother, but they do have to wait till I get them up (except for running to the bathroom and back). Of course, it’s much easier to get up and eat if I’ve gone to sleep at a good hour.

This is probably silly, but sometimes it’s the little things that help me. Thanks to Kendra from preschoolersandpeace, we’ve discovered the Milly Molly Mandy books, and we love them. When I’m feeling like I don’t care for my job all that much, sometimes we’ll read those together instead of whatever school books we had planned. The little stories have a way of reminding me of the delightfulness of home-keeping, the joy in simple things, and the beauty of the family. They may be little childrens’ books, but they have a way of inspiring me to love my job, and to do it joyfully rather than pining away to do something else. Some of my other favorite books for this are “My Mommy, My Teacher” by Johannah Bluedorn, Holly Pond Hill books (cute little prayers and poems set amid adorable cottages and bunnies - they make me want to “kick off your shoes and swing in bare feet”!) The other day Matt was SO sweet, and he took the girls to the Christmas lights park and told me to stay home and take a bubble bath (he knew I was tired). So I enjoyed a hot bubble bath and perused and old Victoria magazine (sadly, they’ve discontinued it). Sometimes looking in magazines like that can cause me to covet, but this was particularly refreshing to me. I just so enjoyed perusing the pictures of children playing by the Christmas tree, the lovely feasts and homes, the carolers singing. For some reason it was what I needed at that moment to remind me that creating beauty in our homes (in our children’s hearts, especially) is a wonderful goal, and one worthy of our time and effort. I guess it comes down to loving my work (meaning my husband, my children, my home). When I love my work I’m less likely to burn-out, and this is a little thing that helps me.

Lastly, but probably most importantly, the days I struggle with burnout/frustration/lack of enjoyment of the work God’s given me are the days I fail to pray. When I actually take the time to pray for my attitude and the way I care for the girls, for their particular struggles, for our day and how we spend our time, for merry hearts and enjoyment of one another, for Matt as he leads and provides for our family, etc . . .I find myself truly loving my work, much more patient, able to discipline lovingly, kindly, and properly, and able to laugh at little things and just enjoy my station. When I don’t pray (and along with this, read the Word), I don’t seem to enjoy my station nearly as much!